Boxing and MMA is like oil and water

  • Wanna Join? New users you can now register lightning fast using your Facebook or Twitter accounts.
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#1
By Zack Arnold

After having to reschedule their second MMA event from October 11th to January of 2009, Affliction promised the MMA public a breathtaking, earth-shattering announcement that would forever alter the course of the fight industry. This announcement would take place at a press conference featuring Ricky Hatton to hype up his next boxing fight. Rumors were abound that Affliction finally inked a partnership with Golden Boy Promotions.

So on Saturday night, we were treated to Hatton no-showing his own press conference (illness was used as the reason for the no-show) and Affliction announcing that they would promotion four fighting events with Golden Boy Promotions in 2009. The headline from this press conference on AP and other news agencies revolved around the fact that Oscar De La Hoya was finally getting into the MMA business.

The real headline, of course, is that Affliction is now abandoning their originaly MMA business model in hopes of promoting hybrid fight shows featuring both boxing and MMA matches.

What a lousy concept.

If recent history has taught us anything about the success UFC has had in the MMA industry, it’s that there is a real and legitimate crossover between MMA and professional wrestling fans. Pro-wrestling fans are more than willing to pay for an MMA PPV if someone like a Brock Lesnar is on the fight card. So, the MMA/wrestling connection is established as a successful marketing tool. Pivoting from MMA to boxing, however, is at best an unproven marketing method and predictably, at worst, a template for a complete marketing disaster. Unlike with the already established MMA/pro-wrestling connection, there isn’t much empirical evidence to show that boxing fans are also MMA fans and vice versa. The audiences for both PPV purchases and live events tends to be separate of each other. It makes a lot of sense. If I want to watch a boxing event, I’ll pay for a boxing PPV. If I want to watch MMA, I want a full card of MMA fights like UFC offers for $40 or $50. Why would I pay $50 for a fight card with two decent boxing matches and two decent MMA fights? It makes no sense.

However, desperate times call for desperate measures and the move by Affliction to work with Golden Boy on promoting mixed cards should not be comforting for MMA fans hoping for long-term competition against UFC in the marketplace.

Ask yourself this question… if Affliction’s debut show last July in Anaheim was as big of a financial success as being touted, do you really think that this MMA upstart would be so eager to complete change the philosophy of their company to a mixed fight format by their second show?

Boosters online of this new Affliction/Golden Boy mixed MMA/boxing concept tout the fight that it has worked before. Some of the faulty examples given include K-1 big show cards featuring a mixture of kickboxing and MMA fights. Of course, kickboxing is a different animal than boxing. Plus, the Japanese as an audience have completely different expectations and tastes than North American fight fans do. Recently, a promoter ran an event at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas featuring a mixed boxing/MMA card with the boxing matches airing on ESPN2’s “Friday Night Fights” telecast. The gimmick for that event revolved around free or discounted tickets given to fans, with the hopes of corporate sponsorship being able to finance the salaries for the fighters on the show. It worked, but only because it was on a lower level. Believe me, none of the fighters on that card were offered purses of $300,000 or more just to show up.

There are a lot of political questions that need to asked and answered regarding the new Affliction/Golden Boy partnership. First, will HBO be willing to support any of the mixed fighting events? If the answer is no, then that takes away a major power source away from Golden Boy. Second, why would HBO be willing to support Affliction when they were interested in working with the only pure MMA play in town, UFC? Third, how much risk is Golden Boy really dealing with here as far as working with Affliction (other than helping with the production costs involved in the shows)? Is the risk minimal or is it an all-in bet in the MMA market? Remember the last splashy name who promised to make a big play in the MMA business and instead is happy with a limited role… Mark Cuban. We certainly remember the breathless headlines months ago when Cuban and Floyd Mayweather Jr. had a meeting and ESPN was heavily pushing the idea of Mayweather Jr. fighting in MMA under the HDNet Fights banner.

If you’re reading this article, you’re more than likely a diehard MMA fan. Raise your hand if you are more interested in buying an Affliction MMA show because boxing fights are going to be added to the card. … I don’t envision too many fans raising their hands right now. Now, raise your hand if you are less interested in buying an Affliction MMA show with boxing fights on the card… I envision a smattering of hands going up. Now, raise your hand if Affliction adding boxing fights to their MMA cards doesn’t mean anything to you as a paying customer… now I see a majority of hands being raised there. Unlike pro-wrestling fans who are willing to make that pivot to MMA, you are not going to find too many boxing fans automatically making a natural pivot to MMA.

For the sake of argument, let’’s play along with those who are touting the Affliction/Golden Boy deal as a good thing for both companies. Let’s say we get our mixed boxing/MMA cards going and they draw some interest… what is more likely to happen, boxing fans being converted into MMA fans or MMA fans being converted into boxing fans? If you chose the former, you made the right call. Given that equation, why would Golden Boy want to get involved in an industry (MMA) that could hurt their core business (boxing) long-term? It’s a head-scratcher.

On paper, the announcement of Affliction and Golden Boy working together is supposed to provide positive shock value. It’s supposed to create the kind of buzz and excitement that would make MMA fans go, “Wow! UFC has real competition now!” Instead, Saturday’s announcement of four events featuring a mixed boxing/MMA format has produced a relatively muted reaction and a shrug of the shoulder from hardcore MMA fans who pay for every PPV, buy every MMA DVD, and read every MMA book published. If even the hardcores aren’t impressed with this new marketing strategy, then how do you expect the casual fight fan in North America to react?
 
Feb 8, 2006
2,617
1,373
0
41
#2
its real simple mma is slutty and boxing is classy, I like em both but mma has a long way 2 go. 4 some reason when i watch mma(ufc) bouts WWE comes 2 mind cause they promote the shit like its monday night raw
 
Apr 25, 2002
2,613
4
0
48
#3
its real simple mma is slutty and boxing is classy, I like em both but mma has a long way 2 go. 4 some reason when i watch mma(ufc) bouts WWE comes 2 mind cause they promote the shit like its monday night raw
Spoken like a true idiot....

lol @ boxing is classy after seeing the weigh ins of casamayor vs marquez. Yea that was a classy thing display of sportsmanship putting your hands in front of your opponents face taunting him....
 
May 13, 2002
49,944
47,801
113
45
Seattle
www.socialistworld.net
#4
this shit doesn't really need to be its own thread. Boxing/UFC comparison threads have been played out. Yes, two different sports, apples & oranges, etc. Some people like boxing, others MMA, some people like them both. Move on.

As far as promoting both on the same card, interesting idea but probably not a very good idea.
 
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#5
Imo I think that it's one of the dumbest things Affliction could possibly do to have an MMA - Boxing event and it makes me in no way want to purchase their card but I guess affliction had to do what it had to to stay afloat
 
Apr 25, 2002
2,613
4
0
48
#6
Maybe Tom Atencio and De La Hoya are secret lovers hahaha they both have female tendencies. I think it'll cover Afflictions lack of bringing in heavy ppv buys to the strength of Golden Boy Promotions. It'll do decent numbers as far as what they are expecting. Will I be buying it more likely no cause Im not a huge Hatton fan if they are planning on setting the boxing side of this event around him. Id like to know how this is gonna work between HBO PPV events. Are they just gonna edit out the MMa side of things and show the 2 boxing main event cards the following week or are they gonna give MMa a chance and show 1 main event Boxing bout and 1 MMa fight....
 
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#7
Maybe Tom Atencio and De La Hoya are secret lovers hahaha they both have female tendencies. I think it'll cover Afflictions lack of bringing in heavy ppv buys to the strength of Golden Boy Promotions. It'll do decent numbers as far as what they are expecting. Will I be buying it more likely no cause Im not a huge Hatton fan if they are planning on setting the boxing side of this event around him. Id like to know how this is gonna work between HBO PPV events. Are they just gonna edit out the MMa side of things and show the 2 boxing main event cards the following week or are they gonna give MMa a chance and show 1 main event Boxing bout and 1 MMa fight....
and how in the hell are they gon to pace this show will it be 4 hours or 6
 
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#9
Attempting to fuse generations

By Josh Gross



Boxing and mixed martial arts attract different audiences. In coming together Saturday, Golden Boy Promotions and Affliction Entertainment hope to fuse generations connected by little more than the love of a good fight.

The agreement, which calls for quarterly events in 2009 and a 50-50 split of pay-per-view profits, comes a year and a half after Golden Boy Promotions' CEO Richard Schaefer first considered moving one of boxing's leading promotional companies into MMA.

"It took us a while because we wanted to do it right," Schaefer told SI.com. "We're not people who like to jump. I like to educate myself a bit about it to understand the competition and I like to understand the whole space."

In mixed martial arts, Schaefer found a demographic, while largely ignoring boxing, that intensely watched the quick-paced combat sport popularized by the Ultimate Fighting Championship. With cards offering both sports, Schaefer envisions MMA's coveted younger male audience replenishing the ranks of boxing's aging fan base.

"We believe Affliction and the relationships they have with that demographic, the identification they have within that demographic group I think will help bring boxing to these people," said the Golden Boy CEO. "We think as well, many of the mixed martial arts fans are fans of combat sports, and what they've seen of boxing is a very exciting sport as well that maybe they will discover their love for the sport of boxing."

Affliction vice president Tom Atencio told SI.com he sees a similar scenario benefiting MMA.

"I think it brings a traditional sport together with a new sport," Atencio said. "And if we can bring that fan over, the hardcore boxing fan who is a little bit older, then I think it brings another demographic to MMA."

The risk exists that neither group, resistant to a card offering only half the product they're interested in, would purchase the event in force. Yet both sides feel the strategic partnership will work as long as fans are offered the chance to watch top fighters -- regardless of the rules.

Over its six years in the promotion business, Golden Boy, anchored by Oscar De La Hoya, accrued a deep stable of boxing stars. By any comparison, Affliction's history as an MMA promoter is limited. In July, the company debuted with a heavyweight-laden lineup featuring Fedor Emelianenko, the consensus top heavyweight in the world, and former UFC champion Tim Sylvia.

The mid-summer event garnered press thanks to a partnership with real estate icon Donald Trump and the harsh attention paid by UFC promoter Zuffa LLC, which countered the pay-per-view by scheduling a competing live event on Spike TV featuring Anderson Silva. Engrossing himself in the business of MMA, Schaefer volunteered unprompted that he recognized the "UFC is the 8,000-pound gorilla. I'm sure they will continue to be that. I have the highest regard and respect for Dana White and his team. I think they have done a tremendous job and will continue to do a tremendous job, so it's really not in any way or shape to try to compete with UFC.

"It's really to build up an alternative opportunity for fighters -- young or experienced -- to display their talent."

The opportunity to work with Golden Boy, said Atencio, was something Affliction "couldn't pass up. They have been in the boxing industry a long time. I think on the backend it'll make things a lot more seamless for us production-wise."

Details over the makeup of the cards, the size of the ring (Affliction uses a 24-by-24 ring, which is probably too big even for heavyweight boxers), and whether boxers or mixed martial artists will earn headline status will be discussed in coming weeks. So will television distribution. Though Golden Boy enjoys a strong relationship with HBO, the premium cable network has resisted the idea of broadcasting MMA. According to ESPN.com, HBO and Top Rank turned down a request by Golden Boy to place the cancelled Oct. 11 Affliction main event between heavyweights Josh Barnett and Andrei Arlovski on the following week's Kelly Pavlik-Bernard Hopkins HBO pay-per-view card.

Schaefer said he was open to working with HBO or Showtime, but if the premium cable networks weren't interested, Golden Boy and Affliction would independently produce the PPV.

A location has not been determined, though Affliction officials were working on a January date in Southern California after notifying the Nevada State Athletic Commission of the Oct. 11 Thomas & Mack Center cancellation. Reportedly weak ticket sales prompted the postponement, but Atencio suggested that the date was called off due to the Golden Boy deal.

The Los Angeles-based Anschutz Entertainment Group, which owns or operates major sporting venues including Staples Center, Home Depot Center and O2 Arena in London, is also part of the venture, said Schaefer.

Affliction and Golden Boy began talking eight months ago as the clothing apparel company prepared for its incursion into fight promotion. Moving faster than Schaefer was comfortable with, Affliction executives couldn't close with the meticulous Golden Boy CEO before its July event.

"It just didn't work out in the timely manner that we wanted," Atencio said. "So that doesn't mean we didn't continue that relationship. Now we did finalize everything."

In addition to the co-promoted cards, Affliction was announced as the official licensee for Ring Magazine apparel; Golden Boy Enterprises purchased the classic boxing publication to some controversy in 2007. Rounding out the three-part deal, a signature Affliction shirt, sold on-site as well as inside the 20,000 retail store network that features the gothic-infused brand, will be manufactured in conjunction with major Golden Boy Promotions fights.

If nothing else, the company knows how to put on major events. A bout between De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr. last year sold 2.5 million pay-per-view subscriptions, an all-time pay-per-view record. According to Atencio, Affliction's July 19 debut brought in "well over" 100,000 buys, though reported estimates indicate that number could be high. Choosing to give up a 50 percent pay-per-view stake is the correct long-term business decision, said Atencio, because boxing's biggest events dwarf MMA in terms of revenue, and these cards have the potential to do very well.

"This all makes sense because we want to be here five, 10, 15 years from now," he said. "We don't want to be here in the short term like everyone is saying we're going to be."
 
May 6, 2002
7,218
2,906
113
#10
Ya, we have gone over all this plenty of times. Even though my opinion is and always has been more like Trips post above (to an extent), I try not to argue about it too much.

My only comment, is that MMA fighters have been realizing how important boxing is and lately have been hiring boxing coaches to greatly improve their stand up.

I'm a fan of MMA not UFC. Big difference...
 
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#11
my problem is how are they going to market these events and to who I can't see myself ordering any of these shows and lets it an kick ass card, but and how could they afford the payroll of the fighters mma payouts & boxing payouts are apples & oranges unless they use these shows for up and comers
 
May 17, 2004
2,574
2
0
42
#12
Its a good look, you got gary shaw @ elite, now oscar @ affliction. gary brought to elitexc showtime events,, golden boy brings HBO events. seams like a good move. smaller events on hbo larger on ppv/ppvhbo IMO...
shaw is done with elite xc and elite xc wont be around much longer with all the money they are losing.

second no one said hbo is going to show any mma events.
 
May 6, 2002
7,218
2,906
113
#14
From a business perspective, what the hell could Affliction, UFC or any MMA venture company possibly offer Golden Boy, Shaw, DKP, or any boxing promoter?

I hope DLH, Bob Arum, Gary Shaw, DK or anyone else who gets offered this proposal laughs in their face.

DLH vs Manny PPV buys alone are seriously going to CRUSH the UFC PPVs COMBINED for the year.

Doing something like this would only make boxing look bad. They are on their way back up, please dont set us back another step...
 

B-Buzz

lenbiasyayo
Oct 21, 2002
9,673
4,429
0
41
bhibago
last.fm
#15
I think from Golden Boy's standpoint they're doing it to get their feet in the door for the merch sales Affliction brings. It gives Affliction a more serious promotion push, after they were just blackballed out of Vegas and had to reschedule their card.
 
Aug 31, 2003
5,551
3,189
113
www.ebay.com
#17
I don't know I kinda had mixed feelings at first, but over all I think it "can" be a good idea, but I think it will take a while.
For the most part fans of one aren't necessarily fans of the other. If anything not enough to where they'd want to order a PPV with the other sport on it.

An idea like this is better served for smaller cards with guys trying to come up that isn't on a PPV. They had a card like this where Alonzo Butler got upset by Friday and the boxing portion was on ESPN's FNF series. I can't see them putting MMA fights on the undercard of a big fight like Pavlik/Hopkins .. I don't think a lot of people will go for that.
 

WXS STOMP3R

SENIOR GANG MEMBER
Feb 27, 2006
6,313
1,455
113
49
#18
AFFLICTION HAD ALREADY BEEN SPONSORING BOXERS BEFORE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT, IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS WORKS OUT. ALOT OF PEOPLE WERE TURNED OFF BY BOXING THE LAST FEW YEARS DURING THAT PERIOD OF LACKLUSTER FIGHTS AND LACK OF A SOLID HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION. IT DEFINITELY IS BACK ON THE UPSWING. BUT DURING THIS PERIOD MMA GAINED A BUNCH OF FANS WHO WERE LOOKING FOR THE PHYSICAL COMPETITION BUT MINUS THE BULLSHIT BOXING HAD TO OFFER. HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE MORE MMA FIGHTERS AND BOXERS CROSS TRAINING OR WORKING EACH OTHERS CAMPS NOT TOO MENTION BROADEN THE HORIZON FOR BOTH BOXING AND MMA ALIKE.
 
Jul 24, 2005
12,836
2,137
0
46
#19
For the most part fans of one aren't necessarily fans of the other. If anything not enough to where they'd want to order a PPV with the other sport on it.

An idea like this is better served for smaller cards with guys trying to come up that isn't on a PPV. They had a card like this where Alonzo Butler got upset by Friday and the boxing portion was on ESPN's FNF series. I can't see them putting MMA fights on the undercard of a big fight like Pavlik/Hopkins .. I don't think a lot of people will go for that.
agreed