Something to think about.

[NovaFire]

Alright so i recently came across two questions that really started to make me think. The first one is this:

What evidence is there to suggest that the human brain is more powerfull
than other animals?

and the second is:

What evidence suggest that the human brain is not as powerfull as other animals?

Well from what i see, even though we humans can do a lot cool things, like fly to the moon, and invent computers, we cant seem to lead ourselves in the right direction, and as if by default we resort to destructive behaiviors when faced with insurmountable problems.

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

Nova, but that sort of high-level philosophical debate is something only the human brain can achieve.

Are we the most foolish animal because we destroy our own habitat and are on the long-term path to destruction? That is also a value judgment that only humans could make. I dont see how anyone could really take the stand that animals minds are equal to or greater than humans.

 

[ThaG]

How do you define "powerful"?

 

[Mr. Nice Guy]

^^^ Yeah I was about to ask the same question.

Are you asking do animal's brains have the potential to be more powerful than humans like a computer that is only running at 5% capacity?

 

[Sergeant Hustle]

Maybe animals instinctively have a better idea of what's really important. Less is more [powerful].

 

[short]

the brain is the most complex organ in terms of how it works

 

[RedStorm]

Well from what i see, even though we humans can do a lot cool things, like fly to the moon, and invent computers, we cant seem to lead ourselves in the right direction, and as if by default we resort to destructive behaiviors when faced with insurmountable problems.

Maybe animals instinctively have a better idea of what's really important. Less is more [powerful].

I wouldn't use the same words, but I think she^^ pretty well nailed it. Basically, humans are the only ones that can choose to engage in self-destructive behavior in the sense that we can think of abstract ways to deal with stress.

Also, I think in terms of evolution, we've done a very good job of leading ourselves in the right direction so far. We have populated and can survive in nearly every part of the earth, and our population is still expanding. Right now, we are a highly successful species because we are still increasing in size, but I'm sure very soon we'll run into some problems (in evolutionary terms). We're intelligent enough to deal with overpopulation, lack of food supplies, etc. and that's what makes us successful.

 

[Calm 1 NPK 503]

We as humans have no power we may assume authority but no true power. Power is the ocean current, power is volcanic activity, power is an earthquake, power is a tornado a hurricane.
The brain maybe complex it is not powerful, to assume power is an illusion of control which we as humans are limited in. Through manipulation we can control others but we can not control mother nature.

just my .02

 

[Hutch]

well said calm

Our brains are very similar to those of other animals with the exception of our ability to theorise. We are more powerful, and can exert greater control, in the sense that we can run simulations in our minds and predict relatively accurate outcomes to planned actions. Every minute of every day we ask ourselves 'what would happen if...?', run through the simulation, then either proceed or not based on our expected (compared to our desired) outcome.

That being said, I have to disagree with Redstorm. Our brains are far more degenerate than other species because we have the ABILITY to accurately predict the consequences of our actions yet choose to continue anyway. We have led ourselves in the wrong direction for several hundred years and soon we will doom ourselves (and most life with us) to extinction.

After all, if Ebola had the intelligence to realise that it was killing it's host and as a result, the host would die and the ebola population would perish with it - do you honestly think it would continue? That's what we're doing. So many brains, so little true intelligence.

 

[ThaG]

well said calm

Our brains are very similar to those of other animals with the exception of our ability to theorise. We are more powerful, and can exert greater control, in the sense that we can run simulations in our minds and predict relatively accurate outcomes to planned actions. Every minute of every day we ask ourselves 'what would happen if...?', run through the simulation, then either proceed or not based on our expected (compared to our desired) outcome.

That being said, I have to disagree with Redstorm. Our brains are far more degenerate than other species because we have the ABILITY to accurately predict the consequences of our actions yet choose to continue anyway. We have led ourselves in the wrong direction for several hundred years and soon we will doom ourselves (and most life with us) to extinction.

After all, if Ebola had the intelligence to realise that it was killing it's host and as a result, the host would die and the ebola population would perish with it - do you honestly think it would continue? That's what we're doing. So many brains, so little true intelligence.

hmm, allow me to disagree

Animals do the same thing all the time, and they die as a consequence. This is natural selection in action. With time they evolve so that they adapt to their environment/host in such a way that they don't cause its destruction/death and their own in turn. This is what we see when we observe nature, but it is a consequence of the process I described.

 

[Formaldehyde Rx]

What evidence is there to suggest that the human brain is more powerfull than other animals?

The greater inter-neuron content of the human brain per weight.

 

[Hutch]

hmm, allow me to disagree

Animals do the same thing all the time, and they die as a consequence. This is natural selection in action. With time they evolve so that they adapt to their environment/host in such a way that they don't cause its destruction/death and their own in turn. This is what we see when we observe nature, but it is a consequence of the process I described.

All good - I don't see your statement as a refutation of my original post. You know I'm a very vocal proponent of the theory of evolution by means of natural selection. I was merely highlighting the fact that, with our unique foresight, we can theoretically bypass natural selection. Using a simplistic example, instead of chancing it (the bear with the thickest coat will survive the snow, the rest will die), we can often predict the future and make preemptive changes (our data suggests snow is coming, let's build a house, make some cloths and light a fire). Yet, even with such foresight, we're still spiralling to our doom. Not the smartest course of action if you ask me...

 

[ThaG]

I understood that you mean that because animals do not exhaust their resource base, they are "smarter" than us in that sense; which is not true, because they often do exactly the opposite as I described

 

[Hutch]

No no no, I can't recall saying anything to that effect. Some animals do exhaust their resource base and such a species won't survive - we're on the same page here (natural selection). i.e. ebola uses all it's resources (the human body) so quickly, it has little chance of becoming widespread. Ebola isn't conscious of what it's doing though - instead it just blindly follows it's genes in a non stop path of destruction, the outcome always the same (death, or near death of the host - unless mutations decrease their lethality). We're doing the same thing as ebola, travelling along a path of destruction with a certain outcome. The only difference is that we're not travelling blind - we can see what's ahead and are doing nothing to circumvent it. We may be the first ever species to become extinct by unnatural selection.

 

[Blazelazy]

"THe brain trying to understand itself,is like a pair of pliers trying to grasp itself"

Something i read a long time ago...

 

[XxtraMannish]

Nova, but that sort of high-level philosophical debate is something only the human brain can achieve.

Are we the most foolish animal because we destroy our own habitat and are on the long-term path to destruction? That is also a value judgment that only humans could make. I dont see how anyone could really take the stand that animals minds are equal to or greater than humans.

Not necessarily. The truth is we don't know what goes through animals' minds. they could be vastly superior to us in ways that we have no idea about.

 

[NovaFire]

Nova, but that sort of high-level philosophical debate is something only the human brain can achieve.

Are we the most foolish animal because we destroy our own habitat and are on the long-term path to destruction? That is also a value judgment that only humans could make. I dont see how anyone could really take the stand that animals minds are equal to or greater than humans.

Ok, but for example why do humans commit suicide? that type of behavior is not readily seen in nature. What i mean is, if we command the ability to take someone to the moon, why can't we, on an individual level, make better choices about how we lead our lives and our communities? animals don't resort to drug use when stressed, animals dont kill other animal for pure sport. So why as humans, being so advanced, do all these things? It doesnt seem like we are very advanced at all when we look at it like that.

 

[NovaFire]

How do you define "powerful"?

Powerful as in our ability to comprehend natural laws and use them for our own purposes.
We know alot about the outside world, yet very little about how we operate inside.
What are some concrete examples of our minds ability?

 

[NovaFire]

We as humans have no power we may assume authority but no true power. Power is the ocean current, power is volcanic activity, power is an earthquake, power is a tornado a hurricane.
The brain maybe complex it is not powerful, to assume power is an illusion of control which we as humans are limited in. Through manipulation we can control others but we can not control mother nature.

just my .02

I agree. So would you say that science is nothing more than us atempting to understand the world around us, so that we may exert some control over it?
What is the purpose of science?

 

[NovaFire]

well said calm

Our brains are very similar to those of other animals with the exception of our ability to theorise. We are more powerful, and can exert greater control, in the sense that we can run simulations in our minds and predict relatively accurate outcomes to planned actions. Every minute of every day we ask ourselves 'what would happen if...?', run through the simulation, then either proceed or not based on our expected (compared to our desired) outcome.

That being said, I have to disagree with Redstorm. Our brains are far more degenerate than other species because we have the ABILITY to accurately predict the consequences of our actions yet choose to continue anyway. We have led ourselves in the wrong direction for several hundred years and soon we will doom ourselves (and most life with us) to extinction.

After all, if Ebola had the intelligence to realise that it was killing it's host and as a result, the host would die and the ebola population would perish with it - do you honestly think it would continue? That's what we're doing. So many brains, so little true intelligence.

Do you believe that humans are nothing more than intelligent animals?
or that we are something greater than animals, and that we can govern ourselves using innate navigation, without the need of institutions?