vick will not admit to gambling or killing of dogs
- Thread starter phil
- Start date
ESPN.com has it up now...says he was present when the dogs where killed, but didn't do it personally.
Source: Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights
ESPN.com
Updated: August 23, 2007, 11:02 PM ET
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Vick Will Not Admit To All Charges
Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights, as detailed in his indictment, when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, VA, federal court Monday, a source close to the case has told ESPN. Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.
Vick will admit that he was present when dogs were killed, but will maintain that he did not personally kill any of the dogs.
The allegations of killing dogs and gambling were part of the picture painted by Vick's three co-defendants, all of whom pleaded guilty before Vick, presumably in exchange for their cooperation in testifying against Vick.
The source told ESPN that Vick's defense team met with federal attorneys Thursday afternoon, to determine the "summary of facts" to which Vick will plead. But the source says Vick maintains that he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight.
Vick, 27, is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.
Vick's co-defendants said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Source: Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights
ESPN.com
Updated: August 23, 2007, 11:02 PM ET
* Comment
Vick Will Not Admit To All Charges
Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights, as detailed in his indictment, when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, VA, federal court Monday, a source close to the case has told ESPN. Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.
Vick will admit that he was present when dogs were killed, but will maintain that he did not personally kill any of the dogs.
The allegations of killing dogs and gambling were part of the picture painted by Vick's three co-defendants, all of whom pleaded guilty before Vick, presumably in exchange for their cooperation in testifying against Vick.
The source told ESPN that Vick's defense team met with federal attorneys Thursday afternoon, to determine the "summary of facts" to which Vick will plead. But the source says Vick maintains that he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight.
Vick, 27, is scheduled to enter his plea agreement Monday and could face up to five years in prison.
Vick's co-defendants said Vick provided virtually all the gambling and operating funds for the Bad Newz Kennels enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
if this is the case then either vick is threatening to expose other nfl players, he is snitching on other big dogs in the dog fighting world, or the feds case was just plain weak to begin with. either way he isnt going to be banned from the nfl, much to the chagrin of some vick haters. vick has not been charged with gambling or animal abuse. why is that? lack of evidence. the word of the cooperatiing witnesses is fucking doo doo and the feds know it. theres no reason they would let vick plea down like this with the possibility of facing 20 plus years if they had a lock of a case.
vick might only be on the hook for 3.75 million,not the 28 million rumored.
Michael Vick's December 2004 contract extension included $37 million in bonuses. Although the money was characterized as a signing bonus, a league source has explained to us that it wasn't. At least not completely.
The signing bonus was only $7.5 million. The remaining $29.5 million was paid out as two roster bonuses.
But the Falcons had the right to convert the roster bonuses to guaranteed amounts, making them the equivalent of signing bonuses for the purposes of proration under the salary cap.
The problem, however, is that the payments were not initially characterized as signing bonuses, and therefore might not be treated as such in a forfeiture effort.
The Ashley Lelie case resulted in a finding that option bonuses are not subject to repayment. Some believe that the next step in the overall NFL labor relations process in this regard is a finding, if/when the issue is presented in a grievance, that roster bonuses are also untouchable, even if the team has the right to treat the payment as a signing bonus in order to manage cap costs.
Think of it this way. Roster bonuses are paid out in a given year, and are charged under the cap only for the year in which they are paid. After the year ends, a default is irrelevant because the money has been paid, and earned.
Why, you might ask, didn't the Falcons just give Vick a $37 million signing bonus? The problem is that such a payment would have required 1/6th of the amount to have been counted against the 2004 salary cap. Since the Falcons likely didn't have more than $6 million left in 2004 cap space at that time, it wasn't a realistic option. By paying only $7.5 million as a signing bonus, the Falcons were required to carry only $1.25 million in 2004.
So the Falcons deferred $22.5 million of the money into a roster bonus due in March 2005, and $7.5 million to a roster bonus due in March 2006. The conversion of the roster bonus to a guaranteed payment was a no-brainer, since there was no way that the Falcons were going to show under the salary cap an extra $22.5 million in 2005 or an extra $7.5 million in 2006 when the money could be spread out over time.
The only alternative would have been to use two option bonuses, and the fact that the roster bonuses that became guaranteed payments operate no differently, as a practical matter, than option bonuses could influence the outcome. The device the Falcons used is no different than an option bonus. Thus, if an option bonus can't be recovered, roster bonuses converted to guaranteed payments are protected, too.
If the converted roster bonuses don't count, Vick likely owes the Falcons only (only?) $3.75 million, which is the remainder of the proration on his original signing bonus. The bonus forfeiture formula that the Falcons were using in 2004 could push that number higher, since it attempts to spread the bonus money beyond the six seasons of cap proration. But if it's determined that the 2006 CBA retroactively restricts forfeitures to the amount of the signing bonus that has yet to be allocated as wages under the salary cap, the amount owed will be $3.75 million.
The other potential twist here is that the Falcons might have to keep Vick on the team (via a reserve/suspended and/or a reserve/in-the-hoosegow list) for the next three seasons (or maybe longer) in order to get the full amount of whatever they are owed. Owner Arthur Blank might be more interested in simply getting Vick's name off of the books than Blank is in chasing money that might not ever be collected anyway.
Michael Vick's December 2004 contract extension included $37 million in bonuses. Although the money was characterized as a signing bonus, a league source has explained to us that it wasn't. At least not completely.
The signing bonus was only $7.5 million. The remaining $29.5 million was paid out as two roster bonuses.
But the Falcons had the right to convert the roster bonuses to guaranteed amounts, making them the equivalent of signing bonuses for the purposes of proration under the salary cap.
The problem, however, is that the payments were not initially characterized as signing bonuses, and therefore might not be treated as such in a forfeiture effort.
The Ashley Lelie case resulted in a finding that option bonuses are not subject to repayment. Some believe that the next step in the overall NFL labor relations process in this regard is a finding, if/when the issue is presented in a grievance, that roster bonuses are also untouchable, even if the team has the right to treat the payment as a signing bonus in order to manage cap costs.
Think of it this way. Roster bonuses are paid out in a given year, and are charged under the cap only for the year in which they are paid. After the year ends, a default is irrelevant because the money has been paid, and earned.
Why, you might ask, didn't the Falcons just give Vick a $37 million signing bonus? The problem is that such a payment would have required 1/6th of the amount to have been counted against the 2004 salary cap. Since the Falcons likely didn't have more than $6 million left in 2004 cap space at that time, it wasn't a realistic option. By paying only $7.5 million as a signing bonus, the Falcons were required to carry only $1.25 million in 2004.
So the Falcons deferred $22.5 million of the money into a roster bonus due in March 2005, and $7.5 million to a roster bonus due in March 2006. The conversion of the roster bonus to a guaranteed payment was a no-brainer, since there was no way that the Falcons were going to show under the salary cap an extra $22.5 million in 2005 or an extra $7.5 million in 2006 when the money could be spread out over time.
The only alternative would have been to use two option bonuses, and the fact that the roster bonuses that became guaranteed payments operate no differently, as a practical matter, than option bonuses could influence the outcome. The device the Falcons used is no different than an option bonus. Thus, if an option bonus can't be recovered, roster bonuses converted to guaranteed payments are protected, too.
If the converted roster bonuses don't count, Vick likely owes the Falcons only (only?) $3.75 million, which is the remainder of the proration on his original signing bonus. The bonus forfeiture formula that the Falcons were using in 2004 could push that number higher, since it attempts to spread the bonus money beyond the six seasons of cap proration. But if it's determined that the 2006 CBA retroactively restricts forfeitures to the amount of the signing bonus that has yet to be allocated as wages under the salary cap, the amount owed will be $3.75 million.
The other potential twist here is that the Falcons might have to keep Vick on the team (via a reserve/suspended and/or a reserve/in-the-hoosegow list) for the next three seasons (or maybe longer) in order to get the full amount of whatever they are owed. Owner Arthur Blank might be more interested in simply getting Vick's name off of the books than Blank is in chasing money that might not ever be collected anyway.
it comes down to money. atlanta is going to sink as a franchise without vick. that just comes down to demographics in the atlanta area. a 3 year waiting list evaporated in a matter of months. now you can go on ebay, stubhub etc.. and get falcon tickets BELOW FACE VALUE for the first time since vick came here. money talks believe that. what other nfl team sports a season ticket holder base of 52% african american. its not even close. bank on it. ha ha ha!!! go shoot a defenseless deer if it will make you feel better about it.
you might have fucked my mom but from the anger in your post it sounds like vick shared the gift that keeps giving with your mom. lol
New Falcons ticket buyers ready to sell
By Jeff Schultz | Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:14 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
On July 6, the same day federal investigators were back in Surry County, Va., digging up Michael Vick’s little yard of horrors, ESPN erroneously reported the Falcons’ quarterback would not be indicted.
On July 7, Orlando Daniels of Acworth, facing a deadline and buoyed by the report, submitted his deposit for two club-level season tickets at $1,390.
Ten days later, Vick was indicted.
Ever feel like you just paid a premium for drilling rights, only to hit sand? Evidence is all over the Internet. Since Vick’s tenure with the team unofficially ended with news of a plea agreement, fans have flooded eBay, Craigslist and StubHub with their season tickets. The Web suddenly looks like a surf shop in Des Moines.
“Dude, there are people selling season tickets on the lower level, 50-yard line for below face value,” said Daniels, who had been on a waiting list for tickets for three years. “That’s unheard of in any market.”
Another fan, Josh Lewis of Greensboro, N.C., also came off the waiting list and immediately purchased two pairs of upper-level tickets for $1,400 in April. He planned to make the six-hour drive for home games, reasoning, “I’m getting married in September, and I figured a couple of wedding presents would cover it. About a week later is when all the dogfighting stuff started to come back. It kinda made me sick.”
Daniels is more than sick. He’s jumping head-first into the conspiracy pool. He believes it’s too big of a coincidence that the ESPN report coincided with his deadline to purchase tickets, and charged that the Falcons and owner Arthur Blank leaked the “news” to spur ticket sales. Nothing like a ticking Hail Mary to start the year.
“At the end of the day my gut instinct tells me that Blank, with millions of dollars at risk, had something to do with the [ESPN] story … or the [timing of the] indictment,” Daniels said. “I’m as upset as anybody about Mike. But I believe a bigger fraud has happened … people bought into a press story and made a financial commitment based on false or misleading information.”
In better times, conspiracy theories would be laughed off in Flowery Branch. Um, these ain’t better times.
Falcons executive vice president Kim Shreckengost said the charge is “absolutely not true.” She added: “We don’t control the media, and we certainly don’t control the government. We learned about the indictment at the same time everyone else did, and had no inside information about whether or not he would be indicted along the way. More importantly, we would never treat our fans that way.”
Now, I’m sure there are worse jobs today than trying to market the Falcons. But I can’t imagine too many exist outside of Washington or Baghdad. No Vick. An aging running back (Warrick Dunn) coming off back surgery. Little in the way of star quality. Or playoff hopes.
With Vick, the Falcons were a tough ticket. Now they’re a tough sell, at least emotionally. Yes, the games already are sold out. But empty seats seem inevitable.
“It’s going to be like it used to be, an empty dome with more visiting fans than Falcons fans,” said David Easley, a 10-year season-ticket holder. “It almost makes me want to go because I hate when that happens. But not for this much money.”
It’s a little late. Easley owns his four tickets at $890 a pop. His ad includes the words, “Make me an offer.”
He decided 10 years ago to purchase Falcons instead of Georgia tickets because of the proximity of the stadium and the available seats. “Now I regret it,” he said. “I bought Thrashers tickets last year for the first time, and it seems like they take better care of you with benefits. I’d rather keep my Thrasher tickets and go back to Georgia games.”
He said he “feels sorry for Blank,” but only to a point. “He can sell the team tomorrow, and he’ll have a good return on his investment. He’s not losing money.”
The Falcons say they haven’t been overrun with fans demanding refunds. But logic dictates most people know better. As Daniels said, “I didn’t want to waste my energy calling. I know it’s buyer beware.”
Another buyer, Ryan McDowell, was told this year he could purchase up to six tickets. He went for the max at $520 each.
“I had a friend who sold tickets to the Steelers game last year and made money,” McDowell said. “I thought I could make a profit and still keep two. That idea’s pretty much gone.”
read it and weep
New Falcons ticket buyers ready to sell
By Jeff Schultz | Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 08:14 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Jeff Schultz
On July 6, the same day federal investigators were back in Surry County, Va., digging up Michael Vick’s little yard of horrors, ESPN erroneously reported the Falcons’ quarterback would not be indicted.
On July 7, Orlando Daniels of Acworth, facing a deadline and buoyed by the report, submitted his deposit for two club-level season tickets at $1,390.
Ten days later, Vick was indicted.
Ever feel like you just paid a premium for drilling rights, only to hit sand? Evidence is all over the Internet. Since Vick’s tenure with the team unofficially ended with news of a plea agreement, fans have flooded eBay, Craigslist and StubHub with their season tickets. The Web suddenly looks like a surf shop in Des Moines.
“Dude, there are people selling season tickets on the lower level, 50-yard line for below face value,” said Daniels, who had been on a waiting list for tickets for three years. “That’s unheard of in any market.”
Another fan, Josh Lewis of Greensboro, N.C., also came off the waiting list and immediately purchased two pairs of upper-level tickets for $1,400 in April. He planned to make the six-hour drive for home games, reasoning, “I’m getting married in September, and I figured a couple of wedding presents would cover it. About a week later is when all the dogfighting stuff started to come back. It kinda made me sick.”
Daniels is more than sick. He’s jumping head-first into the conspiracy pool. He believes it’s too big of a coincidence that the ESPN report coincided with his deadline to purchase tickets, and charged that the Falcons and owner Arthur Blank leaked the “news” to spur ticket sales. Nothing like a ticking Hail Mary to start the year.
“At the end of the day my gut instinct tells me that Blank, with millions of dollars at risk, had something to do with the [ESPN] story … or the [timing of the] indictment,” Daniels said. “I’m as upset as anybody about Mike. But I believe a bigger fraud has happened … people bought into a press story and made a financial commitment based on false or misleading information.”
In better times, conspiracy theories would be laughed off in Flowery Branch. Um, these ain’t better times.
Falcons executive vice president Kim Shreckengost said the charge is “absolutely not true.” She added: “We don’t control the media, and we certainly don’t control the government. We learned about the indictment at the same time everyone else did, and had no inside information about whether or not he would be indicted along the way. More importantly, we would never treat our fans that way.”
Now, I’m sure there are worse jobs today than trying to market the Falcons. But I can’t imagine too many exist outside of Washington or Baghdad. No Vick. An aging running back (Warrick Dunn) coming off back surgery. Little in the way of star quality. Or playoff hopes.
With Vick, the Falcons were a tough ticket. Now they’re a tough sell, at least emotionally. Yes, the games already are sold out. But empty seats seem inevitable.
“It’s going to be like it used to be, an empty dome with more visiting fans than Falcons fans,” said David Easley, a 10-year season-ticket holder. “It almost makes me want to go because I hate when that happens. But not for this much money.”
It’s a little late. Easley owns his four tickets at $890 a pop. His ad includes the words, “Make me an offer.”
He decided 10 years ago to purchase Falcons instead of Georgia tickets because of the proximity of the stadium and the available seats. “Now I regret it,” he said. “I bought Thrashers tickets last year for the first time, and it seems like they take better care of you with benefits. I’d rather keep my Thrasher tickets and go back to Georgia games.”
He said he “feels sorry for Blank,” but only to a point. “He can sell the team tomorrow, and he’ll have a good return on his investment. He’s not losing money.”
The Falcons say they haven’t been overrun with fans demanding refunds. But logic dictates most people know better. As Daniels said, “I didn’t want to waste my energy calling. I know it’s buyer beware.”
Another buyer, Ryan McDowell, was told this year he could purchase up to six tickets. He went for the max at $520 each.
“I had a friend who sold tickets to the Steelers game last year and made money,” McDowell said. “I thought I could make a profit and still keep two. That idea’s pretty much gone.”
read it and weep
i'll take the opinon of people like phil simms, joe theismann, donovan mcnabb, steve mcnair, steve young, dick vermeil, bobby petrino, jon gruden, and a plethora of other SUCCESSFUL NFL personnel over some scrub on a message board who thinks vick is the reason the falcons havent won. go look up terry bradshaws career stats and tell me how trent dilfer or brad johnson are better than him. please do that for me.
When I saw this today on ESPN, I knew the "evidence" or hearsay was rather weak.
They can charge him with what he's pleading to, but obviously someone has advised him that anything else is gonna be worth fighting over.
Again, this may be about "torturing and killing" dogs to some, but to me, it's about what he's actually being charged/pleading to.
They can charge him with what he's pleading to, but obviously someone has advised him that anything else is gonna be worth fighting over.
Again, this may be about "torturing and killing" dogs to some, but to me, it's about what he's actually being charged/pleading to.
yeah i watch every falcons game you get highlights off sportscenter.
real falcon fans know that worse problems with the falcons were
special teams
depth
injuries
coaching
poor wrs
poor pass blocking
once you get past that you dont have a qb playing in the nfl today that could succeed in that scenario. like i said i take the word of proven successful nfl personnel that say youre an idiot. youre a scrub on a message board and until you get that gm job with an nfl team you can think what you want.
real falcon fans know that worse problems with the falcons were
special teams
depth
injuries
coaching
poor wrs
poor pass blocking
once you get past that you dont have a qb playing in the nfl today that could succeed in that scenario. like i said i take the word of proven successful nfl personnel that say youre an idiot. youre a scrub on a message board and until you get that gm job with an nfl team you can think what you want.