"The American Dream Is Dead" - Gregory Clark, Economics Professor, UC Davis

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May 7, 2013
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#1
Gregory Clark, a researcher at the University of California, Davis, found that social mobility had diminished significantly in the past 100 years, reported KOVR-TV.

“America has no higher rate of social mobility than medieval England or pre-industrial Sweden,” Clark said. “That’s the most difficult part of talking about social mobility, is because it is shattering people’s dreams.”

He said social mobility is little different in the United States than in other countries, where ancestry strongly predicts adult social status.

“The status of your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, (and) your great-great grandchildren will be quite closely related to your average status now,” Clark said.

That’s upsetting to many of his students, Clark said.

“My students always argue with me, but I think the thing they find very hard to accept is the idea that much of their lives can be predicted from their lineage and their ancestry,” he said.

Clark’s findings, which were published by the Council on Foreign Relations, showed that Americans with French ancestry, for example, became doctors at a much lower rate than other immigrant groups.

“The French who arrived in the United States were overwhelmingly drawn from the lower classes of Acadia and Quebec, as a result of demographic patterns and selective migration,” Clark argued. “The effects of this lower social status have persisted across generations, even amid extensive intermarriage.”

Some immigrant groups – such as Africans, Chinese, Christian Arabs, and Indians – enjoy higher social status because visa restrictions limited entry to mostly skilled workers from higher social classes, he found.

“The truth is that the American Dream was always an illusion,” Clark said. “Blindly pursuing that dream now will only lead to a future with dire social challenges.”

 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#2
It never was alive. And there was a recent thread here where I kept telling the guy that it was a myth and that science, economics and pretty much every educational sector has proven and openly stated it was a myth. But what's telling in all of this? It's not the bold it's the fact the the CFR chose to publish it.
 

Ghost Dance

America's Nightmare
Nov 1, 2007
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#3
The American dream is only real to the people who are willing to take risk and really pursue it. If you follow societies path that tells you go to school, get an education, get out and get a job you probably won't make much more than your parents and will likely stay in the social position.

But trust and believe there is millions of ways to make it up the social latter in the USA. Fuck statistics and economics the human spirt and ambition trumps all that shit. If you want it bad enough and are willing to work for it there is a lot of opportunity in America. Corporations want you to believe higher education is your only option because thats where the majority of their future work force is. You can either be a worker bee and help millionaires get richer or you could stop listening to what society is telling you how to be successful and open up your eyes and see how much money is floating around just waiting for you to get your slice.

For real there is still tons of opportunities in this country but as Americans its hard for us to see because we have been so conditioned to be happy and content where were at we just don't see it, but just talk to someone who is new to this country, they can see it and most of them trip out how we don't take advantage of it.
 
May 13, 2002
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#4
The American dream is only real to the people who are willing to take risk and really pursue it. If you follow societies path that tells you go to school, get an education, get out and get a job you probably won't make much more than your parents and will likely stay in the social position.

But trust and believe there is millions of ways to make it up the social latter in the USA. Fuck statistics and economics the human spirt and ambition trumps all that shit. If you want it bad enough and are willing to work for it there is a lot of opportunity in America. Corporations want you to believe higher education is your only option because thats where the majority of their future work force is. You can either be a worker bee and help millionaires get richer or you could stop listening to what society is telling you how to be successful and open up your eyes and see how much money is floating around just waiting for you to get your slice.

For real there is still tons of opportunities in this country but as Americans its hard for us to see because we have been so conditioned to be happy and content where were at we just don't see it, but just talk to someone who is new to this country, they can see it and most of them trip out how we don't take advantage of it.
If it were that easy more people would be living the dream. You think it's a lack of motivation holding everyone back? yeah right. The odds are stacked against you. You can't really take chances when you have massive medical bills to pay for, a lack of education because your family couldn't afford it, or a massive school loans yyou'll be paying off till your dead even if you do get a good education, which by the way is proving more and more that a good education at a good college isn't getting people the jobs they need to pay off the loans in the first place.
 

S.SAVAGE

SICCNESS MOTHERFUCKER
Oct 25, 2011
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I guess it all depends on what your definition of 'the american dream' is

Who dictates this dream?

If your goal is to pursue raising a family, making sure your kids turn out to be good, moral people. If it means you want to live a normal life, then that goal is attainable.

What this article is saying is that the american dream is a template set by people before you, but we are all individuals, not some whole group of people all trying to reach the same level.
 

Ghost Dance

America's Nightmare
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If it were that easy more people would be living the dream. You think it's a lack of motivation holding everyone back? yeah right. The odds are stacked against you. You can't really take chances when you have massive medical bills to pay for, a lack of education because your family couldn't afford it, or a massive school loans yyou'll be paying off till your dead even if you do get a good education, which by the way is proving more and more that a good education at a good college isn't getting people the jobs they need to pay off the loans in the first place.
Did you even read what i wrote???

No where did i say it was easy nor did i say it was lack of motivation its more of being comfortable where your at...also i made the point in my post that higher education most likely wouldn't get you there...so I'm confused where u disagreeing with me??

And yeah the "odds" are stacked against you i agree but like i said the human spirit trumps all that and i stand by my word if you want it bad enough you can get it.
 

Ghost Dance

America's Nightmare
Nov 1, 2007
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#8
I guess it all depends on what your definition of 'the american dream' is

Who dictates this dream?

If your goal is to pursue raising a family, making sure your kids turn out to be good, moral people. If it means you want to live a normal life, then that goal is attainable.

What this article is saying is that the american dream is a template set by people before you, but we are all individuals, not some whole group of people all trying to reach the same level.
i agree success is determined by the person trying to achieve it but what i was speaking on the "American Dream" as doing better than your parents by climbing up the social latter or making more money.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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#9
The American dream is only real to the people who are willing to take risk and really pursue it.
The numbers show the opposite.

If you follow societies path that tells you go to school, get an education, get out and get a job you probably won't make much more than your parents and will likely stay in the social position.
OK, so aside from this what other options are out there? Let's focus on one in particular, owning your own business. Now let's say you've done your due diligence, developed a strong business plan, have a SWOT included in it, have invested your own money, etc. When it comes time to speak with a VC or Angel and you're denied then what? When you go to a bank and get denied a loan then what?

But trust and believe there is millions of ways to make it up the social latter in the USA.
Actually there isn't. There are only two ways, legal or illegal and everything else falls under one of these umbrellas. However, what is the likelihood that you will succeed and have social mobility? Probably a better chance of hitting the lotto four times in a row.

Fuck statistics and economics the human spirt and ambition trumps all that shit.
So basically "fuck" the evidence...

If you want it bad enough and are willing to work for it there is a lot of opportunity in America. Corporations want you to believe higher education is your only option because thats where the majority of their future work force is. You can either be a worker bee and help millionaires get richer or you could stop listening to what society is telling you how to be successful and open up your eyes and see how much money is floating around just waiting for you to get your slice.
You are missing the point of the report.

For real there is still tons of opportunities in this country but as Americans its hard for us to see because we have been so conditioned to be happy and content where were at we just don't see it, but just talk to someone who is new to this country, they can see it and most of them trip out how we don't take advantage of it.
See above.
 
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Coach E. No

Jesus es Numero Uno
Mar 30, 2013
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Personally, I think the American dream applies to those who come from [extreme] poverty. It is alive and well for those who come from literally next to nothing, work hard and have something to show for it, raise their kids in a place where they can get a good education, and enjoy their family.

But the American Dream also suggests that it is for the generation of the person working to achieve it. For most people, it's a process that yields dividends a generation or two later. Being able to achieve the American Dream in one lifetime isn't impossible, but it is extremely difficult.

I think a lot of people think American Dream and picture Scarface. It's subjective and depends on what your definition of "making it" is. Being poor as hell on food stamps, living in nothing but apartments your entire life, to going out and earning a degree, buying a home in a good area and taking care of your family sounds like someone living the American dream to me. If you can't be happy with that progress in your life, you need to learn to be content. Some people chase fortune their entire lives, get it, and they are still miserable.
 
May 7, 2013
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#12
Wiki said:
The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, a set of ideals in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in an society with few barriers.
This is closer to the definition of what the professor was referring to, not what we individually think the "American Dream" is.
 
Feb 10, 2009
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#13
One of the main problems is that this country is being run by the hippie generation now....Too many people are on welfare and the elections are all rigged. And public schools are only teaching kids to grow up to be sheep, A high percentage of high school grads today don't know their bill of rights and the government has been infiltrated by foreign banksters a long time ago before your parents were born.

Americans today are mostly pussies that have never skinned a animal that they hunted, and they lack the basic skills to survive on their own.
 
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I didn't mean to say that hunting has anything to do with the American dream, because successful business people could afford to have other people cook their food so they don't have to hunt.

What I meant to say is that a lot of those people on food stamps were never taught the skills to go out and hunt their own food.
 
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